Page 153: Seashore Meetings 1
Seashore Meetings 1
Summary: Dafydd and Nares talk on alliances with a brief interuption from Tia
Date: 16/12/2011
Related Logs: Follows shortly after Conversations on the Green
Dafydd Nares Tiaryn 
RockyCove, Terrick's Rost
To the west of the path leading down, the beach extends below a cliff face and takes a turn inland where the terrain above has collapsed down to be claimed by the pounding waters below. It has formed a small, almost private cove with jagged rocks in the water at the cliffs while the ocean has relaimed most of those from the beach. Due to the elevation of the cliffs, the top of the tower to the north is just barely visible despite the relatively short distance.
Fri 16th Dec, 288

The water in the cove rush against the rocks, making a noise that seems never ending. It never ceases, but fades into a rhythmic, almost soothing sound. Soothing perhaps for one who lives beside the shore. For Dafydd Camden, a man born and raised under the canopy of the trees, he keeps a good and respectable distance from the water's edge. The sun is lowering, but not completely down, so there is light to guide steps, and to see a man's eyes when speaking with him. This is a good thing, particularly when speaking to an Ironborn, even if it is one who can speak courteously (for him). The Captain of the Guard sits upon the spot where beach meets more solid ground, legs tucked ..
"Captain.." Dafydd pauses, his brows rise in askance, "Captain of a ship.. you?"

Being entirely used to the sea, Nares is closer to the ocean than Dafydd. He's not quite skimming stones, but he certainly seems almost at home. Turning his gaze from the crashing waves he looks at the Youngest Camden Lord for a moment, "Yes, of a ship." Taking a few steps towards the younger man he pauses while still a short distance away, "Is it really that much of a surprise? I already told you I wasn't her sword. What else did you take me for?"

"You didn't introduce yourself as a 'Captain'." Dafydd looks across, watching the other man before him, watching his approach. There's no tenseness, nor is there any rise from the ground. "Though," and here, he smirks, "having a slip of a girl beat the tar out of a Captain is kind of amusing." The Camden coughs in a 'throat clearing' sound, trying to hide the amusement in the tones, "And before you say it, No, I'm not afraid. I simply don't."

Nares offers by way of explanation the rather unhelpful, "You didn't introduce yourself as a Ser." There's no emphasis on the 'you' though, it's more a general comment then something that’s actually aimed. "I've seen that 'slip of a girl' fight since she was no higher than your knee, it may well have been amusing for a spectator had she been one of your women but she isn't. She was raised to take care of herself and she's proving that." If Dafydd is expecting a rise then he may end up disappointed, for while there is definitely a level of background annoyance at having lost, it isn't linked to Kate being a woman. "Your brother does though I hear, and him, politically at least, a far better prospect."

Exploring is good. Given the locale, no twigs in Tiaryn's hair, or that of her poor put upon maid. However she does make her way down to the cove, following what looks like a path. There's a look of some delight on her face, and she turns a few circles once she gets to where she thinks it's safe. Which promptly has her maid gasping aloud and fretting. Worrywart, that's what she should be called. Tia flashes an impish grin and takes off running along the beach, finding her way to the cove and coming to a stop to look around.

"I'm not a Ser. My parents were committed to peace and they refused to send any of their sons away." Dafydd sounds a little .. bitter about it, perhaps? "And after they died, and my brother took the throne, it was too late." That part, he doesn't regret. He listens to the brief 'history' of the Ironborn, and he nods. "She's inter—" He stops, however, as Nares points to the fact that of the two brothers, the elder is the more.. desirable, politically speaking. "I know." He's very aware.. and it's something he just doesn't wish to elaborate upon… really.
Dafydd catches the movement as the free spirit goes running, and upon her approach, he begins his rise from his spot. "Little Tia.."

Nares watches Dafydd's reactions as he speaks, nodding slightly when he detects faintly bitter air. In his head at least, it clearly explains something. Noting equally, that he seems to have found a sore topic, he moves on.. or would do were it not for the arrival of a thid into the cove. Tracking his head round he spots the newly arrived Camden then glances back to Dafydd, eyebrow raised questioningly, checking if it's safe to continue. With regard to Tia herself though, he makes no move, preferring to stay exactly where he is, waiting for some kind of response from her brother first.

Tia, having heard her name called by her brother, continues forward. She does pause to look at the ocean where it is, and then continues along. Her maid eventually does make it around the curve, catching up. Perpetually behind, that one. "Dafydd, fancy meeting you here," she says with a smile. "Master Nares, good to see you again." Her eyes are agleam with simple joie de vivre, and the salt tang of the air and its taste on her tongue only adds to her enjoyment. "I am not interrupting you, am I? I can continue my exploration if so, with not a worry."

"Captain Nares," Dafydd begins anew, "I was not aware of that myself until earlier today." He looks to the Ironborn before he comes back to his sister. "We are catching up on news, little Tia. It has been a little while since I've actually seen him, and his observations are usually most enlightening." There is a quick glance towards Nares again and he shakes his head slowly and ever so slightly. "Have you not been to the water's edge here? The docks a bit off are being built with our timber. I presume that's where their galley will eventually be moored."

Nares remains quite as Dafydd greets his sister, for some reason, small talk with excitable young ladies is just not his forte. He does give her a shallow nod in return for her greeting, but ‘ it. He the nods twice again, once to 'confirm' Dafydd's reason for their presence here and then again on the presumption regarding the latest addition to the Iron Island flee… sorry, the Mallister's war ship. As the maid hoves into view to turns his head slightly to glance at her, but then, once he's satisfied he recognises her, turns back to facing the waves. Dafydd can deal with this.

Oh now, Tia is not all that young, though she does enjoy her emotions, so excitable is perhaps apt. "Captain is it? I stand corrected then. Good day to you, Captain Nares. What's it like, the trip from your home to here?" Yes, it's a direct question to the man, and one Daf can't answer for him, alas. Sorry about that. The nods are not missed and Tia's hands find her hips. "I am interrupting something. I do beg your pardon. I have not been to the edge of the water before today, but I am going exploring. You two carry on. I shall return anon." And with that, she actually sketches a light curtsey, though she doesn't start off right away, politely waiting for answers to her questions.

And, there's the cornering that his sister is so very good at. A smile comes to Dafydd's face, a genuine one, as Tia turns to the Captain, now so named, and begins the inquiry. It is true that he can't answer for the Ironborn, and he won't. However, what he can do is, "I'll be back up just before it gets dark. We'll supper together, and I can fill you in on the goings on, okay? Just as I'm certain you can tell me all the new rumours that is floating around this place."

"From my home to here?" Nares repeats before turning back to face Tia, "depends on the weather." See, aren't you glad you asked. He keeps his expression neutral as she talks about leaving, eyes flicking once more to the main, checking she is where she should be. He thinks for a moment, trying to come up with something inane to say to not make it quite so blindingly obvious that the two men had been discussing things privately, but it seems that the Lady has them bang to rights anyway so he just turns back to watching the sea

"You will have to give me more details later, Captain," Tia says to Nares, simply enough. But if he thinks he's getting away with that one, well, he has another think coming. She offers a sweet smile, another thing she's so good at, and then she eyes her brother. "It's okay, Dafydd. You were here by yourselves and have no reason to have a younger sister nosing around. I won't hold it against you, at least not this time. Supper together would be quite lovely, but please do not hurry your conversation on my account." She then inclines her head, and continues along her way, the poor maid having no choice but to follow after her. Shouldn't she have a guard? Well, she's apparently skipped out without one, somehow.

"Barbarians." Dafydd mutters, and then louder, "Don't mind him, Tia." He's still on his feet, and he takes a step closer to give his sister a kiss on the cheek. "Supper tonight. And I won't be long here. Soon enough, it will grow dark, we'll eat, and then a trip to the tavern would not be amiss." While the ladies are doing other things, perhaps? "I will watch your progress until you are clear," is called to her back. His voice lowers again, his words for the Captain, wrapped in something of a snort, "Depends upon the weather?"

"It depends very much on the weather," Nares answers, voice about as low as Dafydd's. Turning back inland he watches silently as the women depart before asking, voice still lowered, "how much does she know?" From his conversation with Kate he knows that both Dafydd and Sarojyn are in the loop, but not so the disposition of the rest of the family.

Tiaryn continues along her way, swiftly getting out of hearing range, and not looking back at the boys. They can definitely take care of themselves after all. She pauses to scoop up a rock, and flings it into the water, making no attempt to skip it at all, just watching it sink. And perhaps a hint of laughter comes on the air back towards both Nares and Dafydd, before she continues along her way, very shortly out of their view as well.

Dafydd shakes his head and chuckles before taking his seat once again, making certain that his sister is well and truly cleared safely. He sets Nares with a look and presses his lips together, "She knows that the Lady and I have been intimate, though not by my words. She also knows that Kate was training the women for good reason. As she was one that took lessons before the lady departed Tall Oaks." The guard captain exhales softly, "I try to shelter my sister. There are things that she shouldn't have to hear, though when in counsel, she does give good advice."

Nares listens carefully and then nods when the explanation is completed, asking only for clarification, "So she knows nothing of the talk of alliance?" That sorted he thinks back for a moment, trying to remember where they had got to before the unexpected arrivals. It takes him a moment, but then he remembers, the differences in eligibility between the brothers Camden. He'll save that one for now though, from Dafydd's reaction previously it has the potential to be ammunition should it be needed later. "Did the training progress far?" he asks instead, he was after all offered the job of taking it over by Kate.

Two full days. Nares' faint frown at that answer should indicate well enough what he thinks there. "Without know how her meeting went I don't know her immediate plans, but you'll know yourself well enough that two days is nothing." Well okay, Kate might have been able to progress beyond 'pointy end goes in bad guy' but not by much. He pauses for a moment breathing in a deep breath of the air before slowly letting it out again. Something in the Lord's words had struck him as question worthy and so now he looks to Dafydd and asks, "You say this is not done in your woods, but why is it now? We would gain a foothold, a secure landing stage and a defensible beach head. What does House Camden gain? A wife for it's third son and universal hatred from it's better equipped, more powerful neighbours?"

"We are not a wealthy land, Nares." Dafydd keeps his voice low, his tones nice and even. "We are universally despised because my brother would not send archers to the line to fight in King Robert's rebellion at a direct order from our lord. Lord Tully cares nothing for us, but he will take the occasional coin that we send as tribute." Blue eyes cast to Nares, his head ducking slightly, "We're not seeking glory or power, Nares. We're looking for a good and equitable trading partner who will help us grow our land and our people." Now, the Camden gets to fidgeting, and leaning on one arm, pushing himself back to his feet. "A dock would do a great deal for trade. A shipyard, even more. But," Dafydd paces, "you are right, universal hatred from our neighbours. But that is not forever. Contempt lasts a great deal longer, I'm finding."

Nares nods slowly as Dafydd finishes. Displeasure at their current situation he can understand well enough, he's just not entirely convinced that it's anywhere near a balanced deal. Of course though, to him it appears to be tipped highly in the favour of the Ironborn, which is quite possibly while he still faintly distrusts it. He's wondering what it is he's missing. He says nothing of his doubts for now though, given that at least this Camden seems convinced it's a worthy agreement. "And so you look to us for trade and aid in training your women folk." It's not a question, just a statement to tie things up in his head.

"Yes. But, be aware, I don't know the contents of the letter that my brother sent to your lord by Kate's path. I am not the one, ultimately, who makes the decisions and accepts the whys and wherefores. That is my lord brother. I can give you my feelings on the matter, and they are this- We stand to gain with trade. I do not believe that sword training with you would be amiss, though I have serious reservations about the training of our women. Our men would be better served by this. You, on the other hand, yes.. would gain a friendly port, but not the throne. On that, my brother is clear."

"With your women so unused to blades I would have suggested training them with your bows so they can shoot from on high and your men with the swords," Nares states. He knows little about bows but training the mindset for close quarters work must surely be easier with those who have not spent their whole lives being told they are only good for birthing and baking. And of course, that’s what all Riverland's women are like, each and every one of them. "If you want to defend yourself from your neighbours once they work out what is afoot then you will need as many able hands as you can muster." He leaves that subject there, certainly not being prepared to go into any kind of detail until there is something more solid than just talk of an agreement.

"Make no mistake, Captain Nares. Our women do shoot bows, and most do it quite effectively. They just do not shoot them in times of war— though they are more than capable of shooting a man who seeks to invade their homes. It is for the men," Dafydd continues his pacing after a brief halt, "that blade work should be given, aye.. though they too are quite deadly with a bow." He takes a deep breath and lets it out slowly, turning to face the Ironborn, "We will not allow our land to become a battleground." It's a surety. "We will not allow any to kill your people in our land, but neither will we allow you to kill them on our land." The Captain of the Guard is realistic, however, and he amends, "Within reason."

Nares looks faintly surprised, but also pleased at the news that the Tall Oak's women are at least skilled in one form of weaponry, even if it'll do them very little good at less range. "If they can already shoot, then some of them at least should have a reasonable mindset for sword work." Maybe Kathryna had been right? Still, he'd train the men too. Nothing that Dafydd makes no mention of the borders, or using Camden woods to hide Ironborn raiding parties, he doesn't bring it up either, figuring that might be one of those things that Sarojyn has arranged and not informed him off, just like the training of the women.

Dafydd exhales with sound, "I may sound like a broken record, but this is my take on the women with swords. They are weak; shooting someone at distance is different than taking a sword and shoving it into someone's belly and having them die at your feet. To put a bow in their hands, they can shoot and kill. To put a sword in their hand, the enemy full believes they are capable of using it and will give no quarter. I will not do that to the women because no matter how hard you push them, they will not and can not fight like men." He puts his hands up, the pacing beginning anew. "I understand that it takes away 50% of our potential, but the numbers won't add up from one to one. In a man, you have the potential of him fighting like 3 men, with bow and sword. At least, with women, you have 100% bow. You don't lose something, but you gain with the men." The pacing only slows, but doesn't really stop. "And this is exactly why I think that Kate is single-handedly making it difficult for us. She's teaching the men that it is okay to cross swords with a woman. They're learning that a woman can be as good as a man, and therefore give no quarter to 'teach them'. That takes away some of our advantage right there."

Nares stops listening to Dafydd's actual words, long before the younger man actually finishes speaking. He does however, let him finish. His expression is now one of amusement, the same feeling evident in his tone when he does respond. "If you're women are even remotely like ours, you'd be a fucking fool to dismiss them so. You and your kind have spent generations teaching them to be weak. We on the other hand teach ours to be strong and it is to us you turn for aid." He shakes his head then shrugs faintly exasperatedly, or would were both shoulders mobile. "In the end Camden, it's your land and your women, do with them as you wish, or you Lord wishes I suppose, but don't look down on our women so, you will not like what looks back at you."

Dafydd grunts and waves his hand at the Ironborn, a soft 'pah' exiting. Dismissed ideas, after taking the time and effort to explain exactly where he was coming from and his thoughts on the matter. "In the end, it's up to my Lord, and if he says the women should be trained, then that is what will happen. He knows my feelings on the matter like you and Kate do. What you do with it is your own business— but I reserve the right to tell you 'I told you so' as the place around you burns." Another utterance comes, and he looks at the path that had been taken by Tiaryn with some consideration. "I think it's time for a glass of ale, Nares. My throat is dry from the talk.. and I would have some more entertaining conversation."